GET TO KNOW JOMAIRA SALAS PUJOLS, PHD.
Jomaira Salas Pujols, PhD. (she/her) is a researcher and academic studying Black girlhood, race, place and education. She has worked with Sadie Nash Leadership Project in many capacities, and this conversation was special because we were able to celebrate and discuss her research and recently completed PhD defense.
Her dissertation "Journeying: Black Girlhood, Movement, and the Refusal of (In)justice" examines how Black girls draw on their movement through urban space to identify and challenge educational injustice—a concept she theorizes as journeying. This work advances research in the sociology of education by identifying how marginalized youth gain the insight, language, and tools to actively challenge policies and practices that harm them.
Read on for our discussion with Dr. Jomaira Salas Pujols!
SNLP: Hello, Dr. Jomaira Salas Pujols! Thank you for chatting with us today. First, I’d like to congratulate you on defending your dissertation! Please tell us more about your work and how you came to collaborate with Sadie Nash Leadership Project.
Dr. Salas Pujols: Thank you! So I started my doctoral program in 2015, and I went to a conference hosted by Melissa Harris-Perry at Wake Forest University. I met the then-director of Sadie Nash, Chitra Aiyar, and she was like, “You know, you're doing this work on women and girls, you should come check out what we're doing here.” And I was like, “Great!” I've been doing youth work for a long time, and so I was excited to get back into that space. So I went the first time just to see what was going on there, and on that day, Alicia Garza was there talking to the Nashers of Newark, and then I became involved from there.
I've had many roles, like helping Nash U and Leadership Scholars with college access. Then I started doing my research with a special focus on Afro-Latina girls and working to complete my dissertation, and that was informed in part by working with Siblinghood Academy and also Summer Institute. So I've had many roles as a researcher, facilitator, and I’ve contributed to curriculum development.
SNLP: Amazing! You have been accessing the work in all these different ways, can you tell us a little bit more about your dissertation? How did you come up with the idea and what did your process look like for developing it?
Dr. Salas Pujols: So you know, I started with the idea of doing a totally different project! I was going to study Black women's protests in the college setting. That was around the time where Mizzou was happening and all of these different college protests on campus were happening. But then once I was at Sadie Nash, I just became so interested in the lives of young people. And particularly, I was just like, “Oh, my Gosh, like, I wish I had the knowledge that these young people have now.” These are 14, 15 and 16 year olds talking about concepts that I didn't learn until I was in college! So I was really excited to think through what it’s like to expand, to engage with these things at such a young age, and then how that affected their thoughts about life. I became really interested in the daily contrasts. For example, what is it like to go to Sadie Nash and learn about sexism in school dress codes, and then tomorrow, you have to put on your uniform and go to school? It was really important to me to do a dissertation project that reflected the lives of the girls that I worked with. I really wanted to make sure that it was a project that felt true to what I was seeing day-to-day. And being at Sadie Nash is where I really found the data and the knowledge that I wrote about later on.
SNLP: And what is the title of your dissertation?
Dr. Salas Pujols: It's called “Journeying: Black Girlhood, Movement, and the Refusal of (In)justice.” And so what I do is I write about how moving through different educational sites — including Sadie Nash, but I also talk about school, their commutes on the bus and on the train, their home lives—how moving between all of those sites really equips Black girls with the tools and the knowledge to challenge injustice. I'm arguing that Black girls who have access to different spaces have the insights to be able to name and challenge the injustice that they may encounter.
SNLP: That sounds incredible. Is it possible for folks to access any of your research?
Dr. Salas Pujols: Yeah! A chapter of my dissertation is published, and it's on AfroLatina girls. I'm also in the process of publishing more of it—eventually I'll publish a book!
SNLP: You know we can’t wait to read it! Now, I’d like to demystify a bit of the advanced degree process, because it can be quite intimidating. Or even if it's not intimidating, just getting from point A to point B to point C, through all of the paperwork, the applications, all of that hardship that comes with getting into these higher institutions... Could you shed a little bit of light on your process?
Dr. Salas Pujols: I was part of an undergrad program called the Mellon Mays Undergraduate Fellowship, which is specifically to train young people to get advanced degrees. They want to change the face of academia. And to be honest, I did it in part because they paid us an extra $1,500 a year if you're part of the program. I was like, “I need an extra $1,500. I don't care. Like, this seems cool, but girl, I'm gonna take advantage of this $1,500!” [laughs] I did that, and there's other programs like that one, specifically in New York, the McNair Program is another program that young people can take advantage of that will steer them through that path.
So I did the Mellon Mays Undergraduate Fellowship, and I graduated from college, and I was like, “You know what? I want to work for two years, because I want to get at least some sense of what I want to do. So I worked for the Posse Foundation. There I did some education work, and I'm a Posse Scholar, too, and then I was like, “You know, I actually do like the reading and writing aspect.” I was missing that learning aspect you get in college, you know what I mean? And so I determined that I did actually want to go for my degree, because I realized I love teaching, I love working with young people, and I love reading and writing, and it’s really cool that I can get paid to do that.
So that's when I ended up applying to a few more programs, like the Institute for the Recruitment of Teachers which helped me pay for my grad school application. So, you know, I've benefited from many programs that have helped me get here.
SNLP: I hope that you were celebrating yourself every day in that process— in big and small ways, because academia can be very draining. It can also be hostile, as you already know, for people of color.
Dr. Salas Pujols: Yes, there are structures set up either against us, but there are also some set up to help usher us into different places. And I’ve seen so many times that young people tend to blame themselves if they don't achieve certain things. And it's like, no, there is a whole system set in place. At the end of the day, getting to the finish line… some of it is hard work, but some of it is luck. Like some of it is having someone to tell you about these programs.
SNLP: Absolutely, and I’m curious about what kept you going? Because it took you a total of seven years to complete your research—no small feat! What kept you motivated? How were you checking in with yourself?
Dr. Salas Pujols: You know, I always say that I think Sadie Nash was really helpful for me, because it helped me see that there was more to life than academia. Being there with young people laughing about, you know, whatever! Like, something funny that happened on social media, a meme, TikTok, you know, watching the latest Megan Thee Stallion video, those kind of things were really grounding, whereas academia is very theoretical and lofty. Spending time with young people in this way was very helpful in reminding me of my higher purpose. Academia can be very isolating for people of color, for Black people, for Black women, and so I was like, “I'm here to get this degree, this is my job. And then I am going to do with it what I can to make me happy.” Taking that approach was really helpful.
And having the support of multiple communities was essential. So Sadie Nash, groups of other Black women, scholars, my professors and my peers were really helpful. And also the lack of knowledge that it would take seven years, you know? I feel like I took the long way and I’m looking at myself like, “Um, girl…!” [laughs] But, you know, it took how long it took, and I made it to the end, so it’s working out!
SNLP: Yeah, I’d say it is! How do you see your dissertation being applied in the world?
Dr. Salas Pujols: That's a great question. You know, I hope my dissertation does a lot to refocus attention to out-of-school spaces. There are some scholars who have already worked on that, including Dr. Ruth Nicole Brown, who's on my dissertation committee, and also Dr. Bianca Baldridge at Harvard is doing great work around that, but I think so many times foundations, people with money, politicians, and just regular day-to-day people tend to focus so much on schools that we miss the ways in which out-of school-spaces can really enact change within and outside of schools. I hope that my scholarship really brings attention to sites like Sadie Nash—sites of critical consciousness is what I call it in my dissertation—and how important they are in equipping young people to navigate the world. I would love to see more funding towards those spaces. I want to see more of those programs! And I want to see more of the more traditional after-school programs learn from those sites. When I was a kid, I was part of the programs that were like, “You need to be this kind of person in order to make it” and what's really exciting to me about Sadie Nash is how they're like, “No, you just have to be yourself.” And like, right? You don't have to be anybody else to make it through these spaces. So let’s work through and think about the systems that have created these conditions where we would think otherwise. To me, that's really exciting. And lastly, I would love for young Black girls to read my work and be excited about the ways in which it reflects their lives.
SNLP: We would also love to see more funding! [laughs] So we’re celebrating our 20th anniversary this June. What is your vision for how Sadie Nash can continue to evolve, grow and make an impact for another 20 years?
Dr. Salas Pujols: I’m excited about Sadie Nash being local. I feel like that's really important. A lot of places want to go national, but I think there's something really cool about having deep roots in a place, especially in a place like Newark and New York City. I would love for us to have more funding to support young people in developing their own projects. There's really cool Sadie Nash programs that support young people in developing their own like social justice projects and social change projects, like the Ella Fellowship. I also want to see young people supported through early adulthood, whether they’re in college or not. And I’m excited about the intergenerational things that are happening at Sadie Nash. I'm really excited about opportunities where Nashers can come back and share their experiences out in the world and talk with younger Nashers about it all. For me, that's always some of the best things that happened, especially in the summer during Summer Institute.
SNLP: That’s an incredible vision, thank you so much and thank you for your time, Dr. Salas Pujols!
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Learn more about Dr. Jomaira Salas Pujols by visiting www.jomairasalaspujols.com and following her on Twitter at @jomairabsp.
Read a chapter of Dr. Salas Pujols research “It’s About the Way I’m Treated’: Afro-Latina Black Identity Development in the Third Space” on SAGEJournals.
Learn more about Sadie Nash Leadership Project at www.sadienash.org and follow us on Twitter at @sadienash, Instagram at @sadienashleadershipproject and Facebook at www.facebook.com/sadienashleadershipproject.
Learn more about the resources named by Dr. Salas Pujols: Mellon Mays Undergraduate Fellowship, McNair Program, Posse Foundation, and Institute for the Recruitment of Teachers (various universities).